Hello all, great forum, great people, great insight,

I have done a few 10 day fasts and a 7 day and a couple of 3 day fasts. Going into another 10 day in July.

This will be mainly a solo effort as with previous ones, as my wife wont be around much so its just me hanging out with the dog.

My apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but I am looking to do this a little safer this time and within various posts I think I will tweak a few things.

First off, going into the fast, I will have just raw fruits and veggies for a week, followed by 3 days of the same raw fruits and veggies in juice form, the a full ten days with leading and trailing 1/2 days on each end of just water and coming out of it in reverse.

So for safety and fun stuff, I will start tracking different stats asap. This will be all electronic and just consumer grade electronics at that. I have a scale at home where age, height etc. are input to a profile, you select the profile and hop on it, the scale measures your weight, calculates your BMI based of age and weight, asses a fitness level, then takes a reading in the form of conductivity from two electrodes your feet stand on for Body fat, Body fat% and H20%.

Question 1) I am looking for recommendations on a conservatively priced heart rate monitor and which features I should look for as it pertains to fasting. I am in Canada.

Question 2) I have done both moderately active and full on passive 10 day fasts. I did not journal or track the effectiveness of either. I am trying to get an experience angle on this question as closely related to me as possible, I am in my mid thirties, typically very active with often a negative calorie intake for the week (burning more than I take in), follow a very structured but tasty healthy food regiment but fall off the healthy lifestyle regiment once a month or so with a full on party night. I am wondering if someones parameters fall inline with this somewhat, and whether they have done both 10 day passive and 10 day active fasts and their thoughts on each.

I will start a blog on the fast around July 12th posting all personal stats and post all the electronically acquired stats starting the day before I hit the raw food week and post right through the fast until I am back on to the regular diet.

All the best,
Jackson

If you read some posts on the forums, you'll notice that I have often advised AGAINST the old idea of having limited meals just before the fast, like you anticipate. Our research have indicated that when entering the fast you tend to switch easiest to the type of energy store represented by the food you had in your last meal or last few meals. So, if you have pure carbohydrates (fruits/vegetables) your body will look for internal carbohydrates (like glycogen) or will likely convert proteins to carbohydrates to continue this metabolism. (Proteins are easily converted bo carbohydrate, releaseing nitrogen).

It is better, in my experience, to "jump in on the deep end" when you start a fast, by eating FAT during your last meal or two. This will activate a fat based metabolism in anticipation of, and entering, the fast. Thus your body will tend to use fats rather than muscle during the fast. But of course fat contains toxins, so you could have side effects. That's where the cycle(s) of detoxification activity comes in.

When LEAVING the fast, you should "crawl out on the shallow end" by first supplying carbohydrates (like fruit) until your body is no longer catabolic, before you expose it to proteins. This is necessary to prevent sudden release of nitrogen from protein breakdown.

We'll be watchig for the blog. If you consider going beyond 10 days, please consider a few blood tests as advised previously on these forums.

André

David, is there a better place for this topic?

Furthering the topic, I ended up getting what I believe to be a quality (expensive) blood pressure monitor. So I will track the following stats day and night going into, during, and after my fast:

1. Temperature
2. Sys 3. Dia 4.Pulse
5. weight 6. bmi
7. some arbitrary fitness level the scale applies (1-5, 5 being
the most fit)
8. est. body fat 9. body fat % 10. est. H20%

I might also get a pedometer to help track calories

I have read much of the forum topics and have tweaked various aspects of my fast according to what made sense and was applicable to me, my knowledge and research and my personal experiences.

On July 12th I will start taking the above measurements and reduce my meals (intake already lighter and reduced) to just fresh natural fruits and veggies.

Note: Fast Doctor, regarding your recommendation of jumping into the "deep end" If I had a couple of salads from the 13th to the 15th with homemade dressing with local fresh hemp or flax oil and local quality vinegar and fresh garden herbs (rosemary, oregano, sage, thyme) would the oil count as fat uptake you would endorse still? If so how much oil on each salad? How bout raw organic nuts to accompany the oil on the salads if the oil isnt enough? If not what type of meals would you recommend between the 13th and 15th?

Not sure if I will do the salad thing just yet but would like some further input on your reasoning for the above other than to get your body used to fats. Is this whole "deep end" still applicable if you dont have much fat to begin with? I am still leaning towards the veggies and fruits only going into and have read you assertion to the contrary. Your response is most welcomed.

After salad lunch on the 15th, just freshly juiced veggies and fruits for 24 hours, then just water for the next 264 hours.

Also I am planning on being active this fast, tentative plan 3 - 15 min brisk walks throughout the day, some very light weight training for say 30 mins once a day and a mechanical full body self massage and steam shower once a day.

I will start blogging on the night of the 12th possibly with pictures.

Stats
Height: 6'4 --> 1.93m
Weight: 185pds --> 83.9kg
Age: 34

Can anyone else recommend any tweaks to my measurements or fast regiment? Please include logic or experience if it is applicable

Slim Pickens, Have you though of getting a full compliment of blood tests done? one before during and after 'shot'?
Also you are welcome to post your daily blogs here on this thread as well as a daily blog on the Blog page this will increase your exposure. The Fast Doctor is away for a few months, but said that he would do his best to answer forum posts during this time.

David

I will look into blood tests although I am running out of time with work deadlines to get them done and I am not sure if there are costs involved.

I have added gluco and keto urine tests to the daily mix starting tonight. not sure if glucose will mean much but heh, why not.

Blood sugar is a good test and easy to do. And nice idea about the ketone test. This will give you an idea of when you will have used up the metabolic wastes. Sorry not found the time yet to hunt of my old blood test. Fortunately they are all free in the UK so I did all of them.
Good luck with this valuable experiment.
David

"When LEAVING the fast, you should crawl out on the shallow end by first supplying carbohydrates (like fruit) until your body is no longer catabolic, before you expose it to proteins. This is necessary to prevent sudden release of nitrogen from protein breakdown."

Dr. Kruger, What is the reason that "sudden release of nitrogen from protein breakdown" is undesirable or dangerous to a body? Joy

Apologies for the delay again. Just settled into a short locum job in the UK.

Slim Pickens, yes, oils are fats and would indeed stimulate the fat breakdown process. Even better so, if it makes up the bulk of the energy of the last meal before the fast.

And Joy, if your body is catabolic and you eat protein, the body craves carbohydrate to supply energy so it will remove the nitrogen from the protein to leave carbohydrate residue. This nitrogen takes the form of Ammonia, which is quite toxic. Your body needs time and energy to convert it into urea and creatinine amongst others.

One of the great tragedies at the end of the Second World war was when Allied troops, with the best of intentions, gave meat to starving inmates from the concentration camps. Many died from ammonia poisoning.

Personally, having met dr Atkins, we had to agree to disagree. I follow a LOW protein diet. Numerous studies have for example shown how much longer the kidneys last if you avoid excess protein. Any protein in excess of about 5% of your energy is, after all, only a degraded, second hand form of carbohydrate.

André

Thank you, Dr. Kruger, for your clear scientific explanation.

A couple of years ago, right after a 5-day water fast, I ate a bowl of chicken. I knew of all the cautions about after-fast eating, but one family member was pushing her home-made chicken (she did not know about my fasting). I was immediately doubled up in stomach pain, which lasted for hours. I was not aware of any ammonia poisoning symptoms though. I guess one has to eat a larger quantity of protein to suffer that? What would be the ammonia poisoning symptoms? Joy

Ammonia poisoning can set in with a small amount of protein, but then of course the symptoms would be mild. But typically it is only after prolonged fasting/starvation plus a reasonably sized protein meal that the levels of ammonia would be high enough to be dangerous. Your body can tolerate and process ammonia to a reasonably high level. So in our world, you are very unlikely to suffer from "ammonia poisoning" but may over the long term have the effects of repeated incidents.

If you look at
emedicine.medscape.com/article/944996-overview

you'll find some of the symptoms.

And for more information look at

www.wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/elevated_blood_ammonia_level.htm

They do not often mention fasting in medical articles because my profession is globally unaware of this powerful tool: It does not suit the pharmaceutical industry!

Hope this helps, have a great day.

André

Dr. Kruger, Thank you.

According to one web you mentioned, “The result, given the direct toxicity of ammonia on the CNS, is a progressive decrease in intellectual function. Animal studies suggest actual cell death as the cause.” That is scary. I am very happy to know this information. Joy

I know what I now suggests is not scientifically backed up, but one should note that Alzheimer's disease has increased, particularly in America, since the percentage of protein in the diet has gone up..

But please don't let it ruin your enjoyment of the occasional animal on the dinner table.. breaking down a few weak (brain) cells sometimes makes space for new, fresh, young, vibrant ones.. to renew your body, the old cells has to go first. It's the persistent, every-day-the-same modern habits that is the real problem.

André

Can dead brain cells be replaced by new cells?!

Until recently we believed no, all brain cells are formed in infancy and we only lose them after that. But new imaging techniques have proven that you do actually grow new brain cells, particularly if you use your brain. It's a bit like a muscle: Use it or lose it. Also, some brain cells can take over the function of others, for example if a stroke destroyed some.

Give your brain good nutrition, detox regularly and it will last a lot longer and better than you ever thought possible!

André

Thank you, Dr. Kruger, for the very useful and encouraging information on new brain cells. I am glad to know that it is in my power to do something to keep my brain working or even grow smarter. This also provides a great incentive to fast regularly. Joy

"When LEAVING the fast, you should crawl out on the shallow end by first supplying carbohydrates (like fruit) until your body is no longer catabolic, before you expose it to proteins. This is necessary to prevent sudden release of nitrogen from protein breakdown."

Dr. Kruger, how much carbohydrates is needed after a short fast of one to four days?

In recent weeks I had done several short fasts of one to four days, with less than 10 days between the fasts. As you said before, I could enter a fat-burning state (judging from my ketone breath) easily, no later than the end of Day 2 since the fasts were done within 10 days of each other. As I resumed eating, a big apple was enough to dispell my ketone breath. Does that mean that a big apple would supply enough carbohydrates to avoid ammonia poisoning from protein intake?

You are indeed right dear Joy.. you don't need a large volume, just enough to stop ketogenesis (production of ketones). One fruit may well be enough. The real volume needed differs between people as both our basal metabolism rates and physical activities burn energy.. and this differs a lot between people.

If you could measure ketones this will of course be the "gold standard" but as you mentioned, the smell disappears.. and the nose is often much more sensitive than the laboratory! You can also feel the different metabolism once you're used to the process.

Reading your body is just that much more satisfying (and likely accurate) than worrying about some theory and test.

André

Thank you, Dr., for your science-based information which is not always available in literature about fasting.

I have four further questions:

[A] "One fruit may well be enough. The real volume needed differs between people as both our basal metabolism rates and physical activities burn energy.. and this differs a lot between people."
So does this mean that one fruit will not be enough for one-day's metabolism and activities? For example, if I eat one fruit after a short fast (and the ketone smell disappears), can I go on eating protein-based meals for the rest of the day? Will the carbohydrates supplied by that one fruit be used up very soon and I am again in danger of ammonia poisoning if my meals for the rest of the day are protein-based? (I don't usually do this. I don't normally eat a lot of proteins. I am asking this question just to make sure I have complete information.)

[B] "If you could measure ketones this will of course be the gold standard but as you mentioned, the smell disappears.. and the nose is often much more sensitive than the laboratory! You can also feel the different metabolism once you're used to the process."
May I ask what you mean by "feel the different metabolism"? Do you mean I may feel instant energy after I eat a fruit?

(C] A somewhat unrelated question: If I feel weak and lack energy during a short fast, can I take a tablespoon of coconut oil? I did that several times during my recent fasts and it did give me instant energy for a good part of the day. [By the way, during my recent short fasts, I no longer felt headache and other physical discomforts that I had felt in my previous fasts. I think that was because my food instake has been quite clean and healthful for the past year. But I still felt a lack of energy.]

[D] I am currently in Day 3 of a short fast. I have noticed that my nose bleeds blood. Not a lot of blood though. It is just that when I dry my nose after a face wash, I notice that my facial tissues have blood stains from the inside of my nose. This never happened before. (I am normally healthy and have no obvious health issues.) Is this nose bleeding related to fasting?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

[A] indeed the carbohydrates will be used up quickly and one needs to continue supplying these as the basis of energy in order to prevent breakdown of proteins (to extract carbohydrate for energy). I try as far as possible to limit my protein intake. But overt ammonia poisoning is very unlikely in a reasonably nourished person. Even with a high protein diet, this is insidious and only reflects in the long term, for example the gradual deterioration of kidney functions.

[B] Feeling the difference referred to your observation of not smelling ketones. This does not necessarily give you a boost in energy, as ketones are really energy-dense anyway. But if you are body sensitive you will feel a different sensation in your digestive tract which comes back "online" once you go anabolic.

[C] Remember that it takes a while for the conversion of the metabolism. Oils (or any other fats) of any description can indeed fuel the catabolic or ketotic metabolism. That's why I recommend a fatty meal before a fast. But the detox symptoms comes from mobilized toxins inside the body: Something that needs to get out, not something that needs to get in. Thus, performing the 5 steps of the detoxification cycle regularly will also boost your energy experience.

[D] Nose bleeding (epistaxis) happens from time to time in many people, and if repeatedly in small volumes typically indicates a blood vessel close to the surface of the nasal mucosa. I know of no connection with fasting. On the contrary, my practically daily epistaxis resolved after starting the regular fasting habit.

André

Thank you, Dr. Kruger, for the very useful information you supplied. May God bless you.