What does one do if one is on the fasting path and has to for whatever reason administer a dose of antibiotics?

Let us say for example that while on a fast or simply in healthy living mode, one gets bitten by a wild animal.

Your GP recommends a course of antibiotics...Help! what do you do?

Can fasting alone suffice to heal a wound and stop it from getting septic? Or do we need rely on supplements such as penicillin?

Be curious to have your views.

David

In nature most wounded animals after fighting will hide and fast until healed. Fasting works to heal a wounded animal in nature; so likely it would also work for a more advanced wounded human. This would have to be a total resting fast to mimic the method of an animal.

For sure fasting helps with the healing of wounds. In the fasting state, after all, you heal the wounds using other parts of your own body.. which is already human. already "part of you". When you eat, your body needs to try healing the wounds with parts of animals (if you eat them), plants or whatever you eat. Now bear in mind that the volume or weight of tissues necessary to be generated to heal a wound or a disease is miniscule compared to the reserves in the body, so you really don't need bulk.. quality comes before quantity.

Concerning "additives" like Penicillin.. bear in mind penicillin is a naturally occurring substance, really not much different from vitamins or other extracts that people consider safe. It does, however have a tendency to irritate an empty stomach (but so can certain vitamins- they can even cause a stomach ulcer!). Other antibiotics like the fat soluble "macrolides" are much less irritating to the stomach.

the contention that you need to use "an antibiotic" because of an injury is however wrong.. every antibiotic has a specific spectrum of microbes it is effective on, and one should always identify the "pathogen" before prescribing. Blind use of antibiotics is bad medicine. Proper use can save lives, and can definitely be part of a holistic approach.

Immunization is another part of such holistic approach, stimulating your own immune system to protect you better, by giving it some "target practice".

Therefore, there is no single answer.. each case should be considered in perspective.

André

Hi Andre et al,
There appears to some confusion on what is a natural approach to life, as in Nature Cure, and the medical paradigm, as in medicine.In fact, in simple terms, they are opposite. In medicine, the disease(acute) is an entity attacking the body caused by a bacteria or virus. In Nature Cure the disease(acute) is the body in action, healing itself from whatever ails it. This process is quite normal and natural and occurs in all living organisms.

The use of drugs or remedies of any kind to "treat" the symptoms of this healing process are contra-indicated, and in fact fraught with much danger, as they not only suppress this natural healing process, and contibute towards the building of chronic disease, and debility at a later stage, they can also kill.

In excess of fourty years of professional practice, have I as yet to see a situation where I would consider the use of anti-biotics. In fact the opposite would be true, as the support of the living organism is more important than any other factor. And
by its very name we know that anti-biotics are against, and not for life. Anti means against, and bios means life.

Vaccination is of course, just another instance of the suppression of the natural healing processes of the body.And all wounds heal, not because of the medication used, but in spite of them.
John

If only things were so simple. I am privileged to have a foot in both worlds.. working in "A&E" sometimes, and having the wonderful luxury of a Nature cure resort at other times.

John's quite right about AntiLife.. I wonder how many peopla are aware that the first "antibiotic" ever used was... Arsenic! (I still had a bottle of arsenic suppositories on my shelf when I started practicing). Later we used malaria (to induce fever, to kill off syphilis), etc.

Still, antibiotics and surgery can save lives. They do so every day. Like panelbeaters don't service your car, surgeons and physicians don't treat health..but the service mechanic cannot say panelbeaters are useless, as breakages also occur.

Be careful for implying the word "ALL". Not ALL disease is caused (or aggravated/complicated) by "germs", but some are, and sometimes dealing with that aspect may stave off death for long enough to give us the opportunity to address the underlying lifestyle/condition/environment that gave that "germ" its foothold in the first place. A real holistic approach needs to accommodate a spectrum of mechanisms, interactions, causes and effects.

We should not unduly criticize disease practitioners. Sure, if you service your car regularly, you won't need repairs (unless you crash), so yes prevention is better than cure. But not all people are doing that, and anyway even in those of us who do, life saving intervention is sometimes necessary. My own life has at least twice been saved by acute surgical/medical intervention.

The question is what we do once the crisis is over.. as that is where my (medical) profession's function seems to abruptly stop. This is where "nature cure" and lifestyle should take over, working not away from disease but towards health.

There is no need for Medical practitioners and Nature cure practictioners to be adversaries. We just serve different aspects of the spectrum from overt disease to overt health. And as I am proving, these unnecessary "opponents" may both reside in total harmony in one person. They should even more easily do so also in one population.

After all health is much more than the absence of disease, but we need sometimes to achieve the latter before pursuing the former.

André

Hi Andre,

I have as yet to observe any instance where we could unequivocally say that the use of anti-biotics has saved a life. In fact if we are to be entirely honest, all we can say is that the person survived, whether it was because of, or in spite of, is a moot question.

You mention having experienced the life -saving benefits of drug medication on two occasions. In my own life I can quote a number of instances where, medically speaking I should not be alive, or if I am be badly crippled by my injuries, or the effects of the poisons etc. Yet, except for now having to have an annual medical check up to obtain a driving licence, I have not been to a medical dr or in a medical institution, for nigh on 50 years. And unless I was severly injured and required a good surgeon to repair the injury, will continue to choose this path for the rest of my life.

Dr Ryke Hamer put it rather succintly when he said, Nature does not make mistakes, only we make mistakes.And if we stop making the mistakes, our bodis will always heal themselves, as they always do in spite of the intervention, if we survive the intervention.

John

Hi,

The administration of any drug, be it anti-biotic or whatever, is always bound up with the the possibility that we might die from its effects when living normally. This is even more so when fasting.

It is always good to keep in mind that:

1.All drugs are poisons

2. Our bodies are self healing organisms.

3.They heal best when we are fasting.

John

Hi Andre,

I have as yet to observe any instance where we could unequivocally say that the use of anti-biotics has saved a life. In fact if we are to be entirely honest, all we can say is that the person survived, whether it was because of, or in spite of, is a moot question.

You mention having experienced the life -saving benefits of drug medication on two occasions. In my own life I can quote a number of instances where, medically speaking I should not be alive, or if I am be badly crippled by my injuries, or the effects of the poisons etc. Yet, except for now having to have an annual medical check up to obtain a driving licence, I have not been to a medical dr or in a medical institution, for nigh on 50 years. And unless I was severly injured and required a good surgeon to repair the injury, will continue to choose this path for the rest of my life.

Dr Ryke Hamer put it rather succintly when he said, Nature does not make mistakes, only we make mistakes.And if we stop making the mistakes, our bodis will always heal themselves, as they always do in spite of the intervention, if we survive the intervention.

John

Valid points John. Perhaps I was just lucky, working with thousands of desperately ill patients in emergency situations, to have come across some whose lives I am convinced was saved by drugs.

I think amongst others of the patients with severe acute asthma attacks, blood oxygen levels dropping before our eyes and about to suffocate to death within minutes.. and the lungs being opened up by a nice stiff dose of Aminophylline, colour returning, patient regaining consciousness. I don't think fasting would have done the trick. Sure, once breathign again, we should delve into the cause(s) and perhaps help cure it with fasting, prevent it from happening again..

Or the man coming in with an acute heart attack, and on the ECG I can see there's a large piece of heart muscle aboout to die.. the ultrasound shows it is no longer contracting, the patient is going into heart failure. He would be dead in five minutes if I don't give something like Streptokinase to dissolve the clot here and now.. Sure, once the clot is dissolved and the size of dead heart muscle is limited, we can address his lifestyle and likely advise fasting but we just don't have the time to do it there and then. (Incidentally, Streptokinase is a toxin extracted from the Streptococcal bacteria..)

I don't think we will achieve anything but antagonism by being blankly and unreasonably "anti-medical". There must be some method in the madness if the vast majority of people still use drugs. it would be energy better spent to point out how we can take off where drugs leave off, allow the orthodox science to achieve non-illness, then guide our patients towards health.

Health, after all is much more than the absence of disease.

Once health is achieved, the likelyhood of becoming non-healthy should be avoided and then disease is less likely to set in. Only then can we achieve our ultimate dream of a drugless world.

André

Raw garlic is an excellent natural antibiotic. I juice mine on the weekend if I know I'm not going out - that way the 8 to 12 hours it's coming out of every pore, I'm asleep for most of that

If we analyze the word "Antibiotic": Literally, it means "Against Life".

Yes Mordenkainen, Garlic is natural.. so is Penicillin as I pointed out above. We ALL eat a bit of penicillin every day as it's made by so many of the microbial fungi that we eat, drink and breathe in daily. Garlic, well.. perhaps it prevents infections by keeping all germ carriers at an arm's length..

But poison Ivy is also natural, as is rattlesnake poison, as is arsenic. (I still dispensed arsenic suppositories when starting medical practice!)

If we had no (artificial) contraception, each fertile woman would be "naturally" pregnant about every second year.. any idea of what would happen to our natural resources?

Although most good things are natural, not all natural things are good. And the big industries exploit our instinct of preferring "natural" stuff by marketing many products, such as "vitamins" or other "supplements" under this label..

Scary stuff indeed. We actually need to think..!

André

Hi Andre,
Thank you for making this point. Especially from the viewpoint of the fact that it is a very common argument for including many harmful things in our diet and/or for every day usage.

With reference to an earlier comment, please rest assured that I do understand, and feel that medicine comes into its own in the case of emergency situations, such as the one's you have described.
Kind regards,

John

Hi David,
Fasting does not heal anything, it provides the right pre-conditions for our bodies to carry out their natural self healing processes. The use of anti-biotics stops this process, so that what occurs is not a healing, it is a suppression. Septiceamia is but a part of the healing process.

John

Hello John it is so nice to see you here again and thank you for clarifying the above, it is always easy to get things muddled up and think of fasting as the healer.

David

johnfielder wrote:
The use of anti-biotics stops this process, so that what occurs is not a healing, it is a suppression.



I totaly agree with this John. We have lost so much understanding in how our bodies respond in terms of bodily adaptations that we immediately think to "rid" of it to feel better.....

I believe that is why fasting is so multidimensional....we learn about the significance of not eating, resting and how this process teaches us to understand the language of our bodies cries for help.

Great to see you John!!!

It's really great to read your comments again, John.. we know we can all learn from you.

Sometimes I consider the spectrum of healing professions like fire-fighting: If we can prevent a fire from starting or getting out of hand in the first place (Nature cure), we would not need the big red trucks with their destructive equipment (Allopathy)..

André

Hi misslinda & David,
Unfortunately I do not have un-limited time to make postings to the web, so must apologise if my vists appear to be somewhat sporadic.

I am in Kuala Lumpur commencing my Annual ROW Lecture Tour and have taken this opportunity to try and catch up, if that is all possible.

Many thanks to you both for your kind words.

John

Almost forgot!

Wormwood, cloves, black walnut are also good natural antibiotics.

My chiropractor has given me oregano capsules for use as natural antibiotic.

Hi,
The fast is the natural alternative to anti-biotics.
It is impossible to move in two directions at the same time. The fast is the natural way to go when healing is required,and in particular when there is an acute crisis.
It is well to always bear in mind that the very name anti-biotic illustrates its action - anti being against, and bios means life. And it is our life which it is against.
The medical concept of life and disease are in complete opposition to the natural concept. It therefore stands to reason that the treatment advocated is also the opposite

The practrice of medicine is the treatment of disease. The practice of living naturally is towards building health, to eliminate the causes of disease, and its necessity.
John

Much of what has been written in this thread depends on a presupposition that "nature's plan" for us is always a good thing, or at least what we want. In my case, and in the case of many others I'm sure, nature's plan is a slow and rather unpleasant death. Without a daily dose of a certain medicine I would rot and perish. Of that there is no doubt.
Perhaps nature would prefer to phrase it as something like "weeding out the weak from the gene pool in order to keep the species strong," or something like that. Regardless, if you want to talk about things concerning nature, we have to include natural selection and the fact that nature is more concerned with its own balance and order than an individual's suffering and quality of life.
I'm thinking the trick is to figure out how to work WITH nature to achieve the quality of life you want. And when nature says, "The hell with you," as she has with me and will eventually with everyone here, then figuring out how to manipulate nature to make the best of it is the way to go.

P.S. Anyone who is anti-anti-biotic has never had a raging ear infection or the clap. ha! -jim

Hi Jim,
Having successfully dealt with both issues on numerous occasions which you mention without the use of anti-biotics, have no hesitation in saying, that nature does not make mistakes - only we make mistakes.
John

Nature might not make mistakes, Mr. Fielder, but nature also might consider my existence a mistake! haha! I don't love or respect nature enough to say, "Well, I might as well not take my medicine and see what happens. (Actually, I tried that and it wasn't fun.) If nature wants me out of the gene pool... so be it!"
By the way Mr. Fielder, I have nothing but respect for your position and knowledge. I have enjoyed reading your responses on this forum for about a year now and truly I am better for having read you.
Ciao, -jim

We need to be fully informed and careful when using the word "natural".

Most of the Penicillins are completely natural. After all, they are made by fungi like those that grow in our food and on our skins and in our intestines. They kill bacteria but leave protozoa, viruses and most other fungi unscathed.

On the other hand, poison Ivy, snake venom and spiders are also completely natural, yet not necessarily healthy for humans.

Whilst I dislike prescribing "Anti-Life" (Anti-Bios) it does sometimes save lives, which is one of the reasons the average lifespan has increased from about 40 to almost 80 in the 20th century.. ONE of the reasons, note: There are many others indeed!

André

This was a good thread! So many voices and competing views all presenting their positions and at worst "agreeing to disagree." I've been thinking about this topic quite a bit and learned much. Very well done, Everyone! -jim

Some interesting thoughts on vitamin supplements and why white bread is unhealthy. I am not supporting Ken Hovind's creationist theories, but found his ideas on vitamins and bread thought provoking and for that purpose I have pasted it here.

I bet if you started a new thread titled "White flour... evil or what?", you would get about 10,000 responses. ha! From the informal responses I've had with folks on this site and in private, white flour and sugar come up a lot. Personally, I haven't had a problem with either, but I'm thinking people have strong, strong opinions on the topic. I wonder if anyone on here has tried to cut white flour and sugar totally out of their diets? And I wonder if they felt it was worth it, as I can imagine it is very tough to do. -jim

Jim,

I indeed have cut out white flour and sugar from my diet (well - most of the time ) and find an incredible direct connection between that and the way my body responds.

Initially, it was so difficult for me, but I honestly forget what bread tastes like. I used to feel so deprived, but since cutting out all breads, pasta and white rice and subsisting primarily on raw fruits and greens, I realize I think a lot less about food.

The main difference I found in cutting out sugar and white flour was that I had more energy and I was a lot less bloated. The last time I tried to eat a piece of bread, my throat burned and my mouth itched, almost like an allergic reaction.

Colleen,
I would very much like to continue this conversation in the thread David started about the "Evils of white flour." I have many questions about this topic. -jim