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TOPIC: Fasting and Kidney Stones

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Fasting and Kidney Stones 27 Jul 2012 23:49 #11537

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Hi Doctor,

I'm susceptible to kidney stones. It runs in my family. I currently have them for the second time. Both times I've had them have been around times when I was fasting. Can there be some correlation or is it just happenstance?

Thanks!
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 28 Jul 2012 01:38 #11538

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There are different kinds of kidney stones, dear Any.. and they need different approaches. Indeed if you "dry fast" that could precipitate some of these stones. For others you have to follow for example a low cysteine diet perpetually. In practically all cases, however, low protein and an increased water consumption tends to help.

André
All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 03 Aug 2012 14:51 #11657

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Hi anywho,

Funny you should ask, & hope you & the good Dr won't mind if I throw in my two penny worth here. By happy coincidence, the Fasting Dr actually diagnosed the source of my excruciating abdominal pain as a renal calculus attack a few years ago, so I speak from experience. He might even remember. That's when I first heard about this site - directly from the horse's mouth, so to speak. He was great, and so helpful, but I digress.

Cut a long story short, I eventually self-medicated with Quebra Pedra. Google it, and you'll find loads of info. on the interweb about this amazing Amazonian(!) herb. Most importantly, it works! It saved me from an op., and the medics at QE couldn't believe it when tests showed there was no sign of it at my one month review. They even questioned if I ever had a kidney stone! I've been stone-free ever since. If you're open minded enough to consider alternative therapies, give this one a try. You won't be disappointed.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 03 Aug 2012 16:44 #11660

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hey thanks :) I've added these pills to my wishlist. Hopefully when/if I get them again (chances are I will get them again it seems since this is the second time) I will remember to try these pills.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 03 Aug 2012 17:40 #11661

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Just please take note of what this herb contains:

www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingre...Name=CHANCA%20PIEDRA

"It is thought that chanca piedra contains chemicals that might relieve spasms and fever, increase urine, and have activity against bacteria and viruses. It might also lower blood sugar."

Thus this mix contains several chemicals, such as antispasmodics, analgesics, prostaglandin antagonists, a diuretic and antibiotics as well as hypoglycaemics.

In scientific medicine we prefer to use single substance drugs because then we can control the ratio between the different chemicals. In plants or plant extracts, the problem is that no 2 harvests may be the same.. thus there's a big element of unpredictability.

Please if you use this do so with circumspect.

André
All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 03 Aug 2012 20:00 #11665

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Hey Doc,

I appreciate the reasons for your caution, but that list looks more like a catalog of health benefits to me than a list of contraindications. If you prefer the latter, just read the small print that accompanies almost every drug prescribed by 'conventional' medicine.

Anybody who doubts this should just google 'statins, side effects' or 'chemo, side effects' for just two examples. I won't touch either. I have friends and relatives who looked like death warmed up whilst taking statins, yet when they stopped, they recovered their health. Whenever there is a choice, I will always go down the natural, non-toxic route. No chemical made by man can trump what God has already provided for our optimum health. Oh yes........with all due respect!
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 04 Aug 2012 05:47 #11667

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If, dear loquat, the same hundreds of millions of dollars in double blind placebo controlled studies were applied to "natural" chemicals, I have no doubt we would have been able to make lists of side effects at least as long as those in pharmaceuticals. Sure pharmaceuticals are specifically designed to be very potent and that is one reason why I limit prescription of medicines to the absolute minimum. But for the same effect, you'll likely get the same side-effects even if the marketing strategy of your medicine uses the terms "natural" to convince you.

I fully agree with your stance on what the Almighty has created. Reading the Scriptures you'll notice the advice of praying AND anointing with oils (The then available technology, likely a form of aromatherapy), not either in isolation. But you'll also note the advice to fast. Regularly. And bathe when you do.

There's really preciously little difference between trying to get healthy by putting chemicals into your body, whether these chemicals are derived in a laboratory or from a plant. Many, if not most, drugs have been discovered in plants anyway. Once refined, however, we can rely on its purity and concentration whereas plants have different concentrations of many different chemicals and these concentrations depend on the season and time of day they were harvested.. thus rather unpredictable.

No medicine - neither pharmaceutical nor those CLAIMED (often for marketing purposes!) to be "natural" - will ever trump fasting as an omnipotent healing intervention.

André
All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 04 Aug 2012 11:07 #11683

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Fascinating topic! from a purely Natural Hygienic or Nature Cure perspective its not what you put in the body that cures an ailment but what you stop putting in your body. So a combination of fasting and prayer has got to top any medication. However belief and faith are also major contributory factors in health and healing and if pills,lotions and potions boost the belief factor then we are still using our own creative power via a proxy and why not! For some it will be the little known Amazonian herb and for others it will be the Alopathic pill. Although there seems to be a stigma attached to placebo power it is a real phenomenon which underscores the power of our creative minds. What really counts is that we connect up with whichever method inspires trust,confidence and healing while exercising a certain level of caution through discernment and knowledge.
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 04 Aug 2012 21:13 #11689

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@ Doc: I believe I addressed at least some of your points above in the other thread (An easier detox route?), but it would be difficult to continue this debate without getting into some very detailed & involved arguments about the merits of pharmaceuticals v. alternative therapies. I will simply observe for now that these two do not sit happily together, and in fact although many drugs are indeed derived from plants, the manufacturing process they go thru must be sufficient to result in a patentable end-product that often bears scant resemblance to the source material.

I want the choice of going to the source, not some trumped-up corrupted and toxic version of it that will cost x100 more. But Codex Alimentarius, along with mainstream medical practice, big pharma and the medical establishment both here and abroad have done their best over the last 80 years or so to deny me that choice. That is at least one reason why mainstream medicine is still looking for a cure for cancer when natural, non-toxic cures already exist.

Aside from this slightly off-topic debate, however, I believe our friend anywho might also benefit from avoiding foods rich in oxalic acid, such as rhubarb, chocolate, etc.

@ David: Generally in agreement, but do you have any evidence that simply not putting anything in your body is a cure for, say, cancer?
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 04 Aug 2012 23:00 #11692

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@ David: Generally in agreement, but do you have any evidence that simply not putting anything in your body is a cure for, say, cancer?

I think there is ample evidence in the Natural Hygienic literature and case histories, if one cares to take the time to explore them. The body is a self regulating, self healing entity and homeostasis does not depend on intervention of a drug to operate. However there are conditions which optimise homeostasis such as relaxation, being in a natural environment, and when one eats food the body is expending energy to process it making less energy available for the healing process, hence a major significance of fasting. There are circumstances where it would be counter productive to recommend fasting alone as a cure because there are people who have a deeply ingrained belief in the power of medicine. And there are people who believe that one would wither and die after fasting for a week. So this type of person who has a lot of mental resistance to using fasting as a method to cure a disease would have a significant effect on the outcome. Therefore I am pro holistic approach to dealing with major health issues. As for mainstream scientific evidence supporting fasting as a major healing modality these are at best scant for various reasons. It is not a topic covered in medical school so doctors on the whole are quite ignorant about it. There are few grants given out if any to research fasting in clinical trials simply because the entire pharmaceutical industry would be reduced by 99%. The closest we get is research carried out on mice,rats,worms and fruit flies, but these tend to be based on monitoring intelligence levels and life extension in the fasting state. In recent months here in the UK there have been several articles in the tabloids about the benefits of fasting and calorie restrictive diets. However they are mostly geared towards life extension.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 04 Aug 2012 23:30 #11693

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Hmm, impressive. So ok then, fasting is potentially yet another weapon in our arsenal against these so-called incurable diseases. And of course you're right about big pharma's resistance (and often downright opposition) to anything that threatens their existence/profits. But as you hinted, the fasting route won't suit everyone, and those who insist on taking something for their condition should be free to choose from the non-toxic cupboard.

In the specific case of cancer, the non-toxic remedies are well documented in Tanya Harter Pierce's book 'Outsmart Your Cancer', which I would strongly recommend to anyone who has been touched by this disease. As for the mainstream acceptance of fasting, you might be interested to know that a Horizon program that airs this Monday on BBC2 at 9.00 PM comes out pro fasting. The news is getting out there, and the tide is finally turning in our favour
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 05 Aug 2012 05:04 #11696

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As always, dear David, you are absolutely right. Scientific studies find it VERY difficult to distinguish the efficiency of placebo and drugs, to the extent that, when the placebo has the same side effects, it appears to have the same effects also.

We people are governed by our brains and once we believe something, like the Good Book says: Faith like a grain of sand can shift a mountain.

I prefer for the sake of a clear conscience (how selfish!) to stick with science and will therefore persist to oppose the notion of putting things in in order to get things out. Please forgive me if it does not fit hyouj, dear loquat!

André
All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 05 Aug 2012 08:44 #11701

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I have no problem at all with your views, dear Doc., so of course I forgive you. I have the utmost respect for the line you hold, else I would not be putting questions to you on this forum. One day I might even come around to your way of thinking - with the possible exception of your views on the superiority of pharmaceuticals.

Neither do I oppose the scientific method. I merely contend that financial conflicts of interest between the manufacturers and the regulators practically guarantee that the majority of drugs foisted on an unsuspecting public have very little to do with scientific testing. Aside from the multitude of drugs used in chemo., which must surely represent one of the biggest frauds in medical history, I can point to Avandia (previously mentioned), Tamiflu (remember that scandal?), and Vioxx, to name but a few. Where was your scientific rigour when these were granted a licence? And I repeat, the placebo effect cannot account for my post-prandial reduction in blood glucose. In fact, there is now some evidence that the placebo itself is not an innocent bystander either. But that's another story.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 05 Aug 2012 09:32 #11706

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You may be interested in the research on fasting as part of the cancer treatment dear loquat. I am accumulating evidence on a google document:

docs.google.com/document/d/1hS4Mxwm2FYhP..._FGOXCo6g/edit?pli=1

whilst on these forums at

www.fastingconnection.com/forum/Posts-fo...n-easier-detox-route

I explained my reservations regarding the "conspiracy theory". At least where things are scientifically tested they have been withdrawn after being found dangerous. How many people may be dying from herbs and "natural" drugs without us knowing that was what actually killed them? When we as doctors certify a cause of death, seldom if ever are we even informed about these.. and we assume the cause of death was "natural".. "Natural supplement" perhaps?

It is important that we do not give the "establishment" ammunition against nature cure so let's give credit where it is deserved and acknowledge our own limitations. What we need is 'INTEGRATIVE' care, using the best of both worlds... not "alternatives" discarding the good with the bad.

André
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 05 Aug 2012 10:37 #11707

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Thank you Doctor for your positive input I am gradually coming round to your way of thinking even though I am still very much pro the natural approach to healing whatever that entails. I think it is important to acknowledge the positive elements within conventional medicine and the pharmaceutical industry.In all walks of life there are those individuals with bad intent but why let one bad apple rot the others. When my son recently injured his hand I was grateful to the surgeons for fixing his hand and although I made a mental note of the various drugs they used on him I did not object to their use. So conventional medicine has its place and is also rapidly evolving. Also cynicism is not the best approach to initiating a healthy debate. If we adopt the negative tone of big pharma is evil it is unlikely that any doctors or medical scientists, biochemists would want to join in the discussion. It also makes the task harder for The Fast Doctor to continue educating people on here for obvious reasons. And regarding alternative natural remedies. I recently had a shock as I used to think therapeutic clays were safe to consume. Then a local council had a series of lab tests done on my supplier's clays only to find that they were much higher than the legal limit in lead and arsenic. Fortunately I did not consume much but it just goes to show how much we have to be vigilant. Another case in point is the alkalized ionized water machines. There is a high profit margin incentive to sell those devices making every health claim under the sun.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 05 Aug 2012 11:40 #11708

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Thank you for the positive approach dear David. Please don't think that I like using "Chemical" Pharmaceuticals. I don't. But IF I have to use something, I need to be sure it has been exhaustively tested and is being watched with eagle's eyes by many objective observers (such as competing pharmaceutical firms!).

One of the problems with "Natural" pharmaceuticals is that we might not know that it's doing harm, because it is not studied to the same depth. We may think we feel sick or well in spite of, instead of because of, what we take. And it is chemicals just the same.. Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, sulpher, sometimes arsenic, etc., etc.. just a much larger and less consistent mix of different stuff than the purified "chemical" drugs.

Thus, like Hipocrates said: "Let food be your medicine..."

Fasting remains the closest to a "cure-all" that we'll ever get.

André
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 06 Aug 2012 18:09 #11730

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@ David: Please don't imagine for one moment that my attitude is to anathematize every aspect of conventional medicine. When I was doubled up with the most excruciating abdominal pain I had ever experienced in my life a few years ago, I did not conduct a search on the www. for an alternative remedy. It was straight to A&E for me. And if I'm involved in a multi-vehicle RTA, I do not expect to be taken home so I can pop a few herbal pills. I am savvy enough to know that my best chance of survival lies with conventional medicine. When it comes to putting the pieces back together again after suffering the likes of multiple fractures, contusions, and internal injuries, there is nothing better than conventional/mainstream medicine. That has never been in question, not even from me.

My point (and I acknowledge that this is a sweeping generalization) is that when it comes to the majority of chronic, degenerative, auto-immune and 'lifestyle' diseases that plague much of Western society today (Cancer, CHD, Diabetes, Osteo and Rheumatoid Arthritis, Alzheimer's, Depression, ME, MS, Lupus, Coeliac, Crohne's Disease, etc etc) conventional medicine has few answers. And neither have I ever claimed that the world of natural medicine is free of quackery. If only that were true. For every genuine alternative remedy, there must be at least a dozen fake remedies out there that need to be avoided. That is why research is so important. It took me at least 6 months of on-line research before I found Glucotor for my Diabetes, but I had to eliminate upwards of 20 competing products along the way for which either false or unsubstantiated claims were made. I hope that goes some way to setting the record straight.

@ Doc: Agreed re Hippocrates and Fasting. As for natural remedies, even allowing for varying concentrations and quality of the 'active' ingredients, I still prefer to take my chances with a natural alternative that has a proven track record of hundreds, sometimes thousands of years, of safe use. Agreed, these are not fully studied by modern Western medicine, but as already mentioned in these exchanges, this is largely because there is simply no financial incentive for the pharmaceutical companies to do so. What is undeniable, however, is that whenever alternative remedies for mainstream diseases (such as cancer) have surfaced, the medical establishment has done its level best to suppress or shut them down. If you find that too hard to swallow, I can cite several well documented examples that will back up what you dismiss too readily as yet another conspiracy theory.

PS Don't forget that Horizon program tonight if you are able to watch/record/catch-up tv it.
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 06 Aug 2012 19:32 #11731

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Bear in mind, dear Loquat, that it takes upwards of $100 million to get one new drug approved today. Thus we know a bit about its chemistry by the time it is prescribed. "Alternatives" that has not been tested may be killing people and we might not know about it.

Anyway, there's from my perspective preciously little difference between them, as both claim disease is a medicine deficient state, a condition where something has to be put into be body. In most cases, however, that what makes you sick is already inside of you. We need to take something out, not put something in.. which is why fasting is the ONLY intervention that so far has shown to be of benefit in ALL diseases. Plus, it's the only intervention I have encountered which in some cases permanently cured type 2 diabetes; in one case Type 1.

It is not POSSIBLE with all the money in the world to "hide" a good treatment. As mentioned, the communist countries will revel in the revelation that they could do it better than the big capitalist corporations. And there's a LOT of medical research going on in Cuba and North Korea.

André
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 06 Aug 2012 22:04 #11740

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Thank you loquat1 v impressed with your post.
Great minds discuss ideas;
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Re: Fasting and Kidney Stones 07 Aug 2012 23:57 #11785

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@ David: Thanks for the kind words.

@ Doc: Very well then - I accept the challenge. I trust these 3 examples will suffice, though I could cite many more.

1. Both authors Richard Walters (Options: The Alternative Cancer Therapy Book) and Kenny Ausubel (When Healing Becomes A Crime: The Amazing Story of the Hoxsey Cancer Clinics and the Return of Alternative Therapies) document the systematic suppression of the cancer therapy pioneered by Harry Hoxsey, who went on to acquire the unenviable accolade of becoming the most frequently arrested person in medical history. See:
www.alignlife.com/articles/cancer/Incred...Treating_Cancer.html

2. James P Carter (Racketeering in Medicine: The Suppression of Alternatives) and S J Haught (Censured for Curing Cancer: The American Experience of Dr Max Gerson) both document the campaign of harassment conducted against Dr Max Gerson, whose alternative cancer treatment enjoyed a much greater success rate than anything offered by 'conventional' treatments. See: www.naturalnews.com/027004_cancer_coffee_juice.html and
www.whale.to/cancer/dr_gerson.html, to reference just two sources.

3. And finally, possibly one of the most blatant examples of an attempt to shut down a perceived threat to their hegemony, the recent and well documented case of Dr Stanislaw Burzynski and his Antineoplastons cancer therapy. If this case does not go down in history as one of the worst abuses of state power arraigned against an individual whose only crime is a desire to heal the sick, I'll eat my own feet. See: articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/arch...ynski-the-movie.aspx and
americanfreed.com/?p=718, among many others that could be cited.

These are just a few examples of many that are fully documented by authors such as Tanya Harter Pierce, Raymond Francis, and many others. Even a cursory examination of just a fraction of the available evidence confirms that your unquestioning commitment to the moral integrity of state-sponsored medicine is quite simply indefensible. Will you not concede the theoretical possibility that on this occasion at least, you might be wrong?

As for your point about communist regimes, consider this. If the suppression of these alternative cures was so thorough that even you were not aware of their existence, then by what mechanism do you imagine that knowledge of these cures would have reached the shores of regimes that are, by definition, closed societies, insular, secretive, and more often than not, the subjects of extensive embargoes?

Sorry Doc., but on this issue at least, you are seriously off the pace. In fact, you make my point for me. You are living proof of the effectiveness of the very same suppression that I am alleging, but which you continue to deny despite the mountain of evidence stacked against you. If you are telling me that none of this seems credible, I could not agree with you more. But I reiterate, even genuine cancer cures are legitimate targets for subversion when huge profit margins are at stake. As a student of human nature, you should know this better than most.
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