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TOPIC: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

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DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 20 Apr 2010 21:07 #4556

  • catmoon
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Is it true that 1 day of dry fasting is equivalent to 3 days of dry fasting? So if you did 3 days would it be equal to 8 days of water fasting? How did they find this info?

Also I have been fasting, if I drink water in the morning and don't drink water until the next morning, is this considered dry fasting?
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Re:DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 20 Apr 2010 23:17 #4557

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I guess you mean 1 day of dry fasting = 3 days of water fasting?
I would say that we are all so uniquely different that there would be more than one answer to your question depending on who's body you are referring to. Also second question I would certainly take as a yes.
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Re:DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 26 Apr 2010 19:27 #4564

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I agree with you, Atnep.. on both counts. Thanks for answering when I was trapped by the Icelandic volcano!

I personally do dry fasting but I do not generally recommend it, as most people are just too toxic to do it safely. Pure water is formed during fasting when oxygen from the air combines with hydrogen in carbohydrates and fats.. so even if you did not drink it, you do get it. And as all water molecules are practically identical, the net effect on your body is the same.

The safest remains to drink BASED ON YOUR THIRST, and hope that your innate thirst sensation has not been confused by all the synthetic substances in the modern "food and drink"..

André
All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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Re:DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 31 Aug 2010 20:20 #5049

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I am only drinking when thirsty and still getting outs.. I probably urinate 2-3 times a day, more than I did when eating.

I developed pain in my mid-back today... some say this is a symptom of dehydration but it's nowhere close to my kidneys... just wondering about your thoughts...

Thanks!
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Re:DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 31 Aug 2010 22:06 #5052

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Frequency of urination usually indicates that the urine is irritating the bladder.. you could consider measuring the total volume instead of just counting the number of times you need to go.

Remember your kidneys are in your mid-back.. about halfway between your shoulders and your buttocks, almost totally protected by the ribs. But some people do get muscle pains in the back during a fast. We are still struggling to explain this.

André
All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 29 Jun 2011 08:44 #8084

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catmoon wrote:


Is it true that 1 day of dry fasting is equivalent to 3 days of dry fasting? So if you did 3 days would it be equal to 8 days of water fasting? How did they find this info?

Also I have been fasting, if I drink water in the morning and don't drink water until the next morning, is this considered dry fasting?

For those of you who are interested in knowing whether 1 day of dry fasting is equivalent to 3 days of water fasting I can share what I discovered through my personal experience.

During the 9 days on dry fast I lost 4.6% of body fat or 13.8 lbs (6.3 kilo).

During the 27 days on water fast I lost 3.9% of body fat or 11 lbs.(5 kilo)

As you can see my dry fast was 3 times shorter and produced even better results then water fast.

I think this should answer anyone's doubts regarding which type of fast is more powerful and more effective in terms of length of time involved.
May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 29 Jun 2011 23:50 #8094

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I have noticed 1 day of fasting being equivalent to 3 days of fruit or juice dieting, but after 30 years of experience and practice and investigation can still not recommend dry fasting for anyone other than the very well experienced. The typical "civilized" person just has too much toxins that would be released too quickly to be safe, particularly in a warm climate.

Living in Siberia you might still get away with it but if you both fast and sweat, it is much safer to take water "ad lib".. that is, according to your thirst reflex.

Losing more weight might come at a price, such as damaging your kidneys and/or liver.

André
All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 30 Jun 2011 00:04 #8097

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I live in Southern California far away from Siberia and I did not damage my kidneys, even though I dry fast twice a week for 36-hour each and have completed 3 day, 5 day, 7 day and 9 day dry fasts within 4 month period. And I was that typical "civilized" person you speak off.

There are ofcourse others who have been successfully following my example and started to dry fast regularly, including Cory who lives in Malasia (a very warm climate) and just completed a 7-day active dry fast.

If you experience long dry fast at least once you will learn that your body will not let you fast past certain point. It will force you to break the fast. How can you judge something you have never done yourself? Have you ever conducted a long dry fast with any of your clients? If not, then your knowledge has no experiential basis except for your assumptions.
May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 30 Jun 2011 00:28 #8100

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Milena.

You need to understand human physiology and have experienced fasting under various circumstances to make pronouncements that could potentially harm people's health. After about 35 years of fasting both with and without water, having fasted wet and mostly dry and measuring about 30 plus substances in the blood during these periods, I believe, does qualify me to make such pronouncements, which are not assumptions but real experience backed by proper scientific measurements and results.

I will never advise a patient to "dry fast". Whilst supporting their decision and observing the response, overriding a very basic physiological biofeedback remains dangerous.

André

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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 30 Jun 2011 00:38 #8102

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after 30 years of experience and practice and investigation can still not recommend dry fasting for anyone other than the very well experienced. The typical "civilized" person just has too much toxins that would be released too quickly to be safe, particularly in a warm climate.

I tend to agree wholeheartedly with the Fast Doctor that for the 'typical' civilized person dry fasting could well be too intense. The issue here Milena is that the dividing line between what constitutes a 'typical' civilized person is a very broad line. And because duty of care is paramount for people on both ends of the demarcation line it is safer and wiser to cater for the ones who are on the more extreme end of the scale and this is what I think is implicit in The Fast Doctors statement 'typical person'. By the same token you cannot assume that everyone can achieve what you have which to me is atypical. I also dry fast for 36 hours 2x week and yesterday had to take the day off work as I was so knocked out by it and I had a pain in my left kidney or at least it appeared so but could also have been a muscle in that region. For the first time I felt thirsty half way into my dry fast and it felt odd not to drink water. Having said that I am indeed pleased I completed my 36 hours again this week as one of the benefits is that I do not experience hunger during the dry fast but do on a water fast.
Also I feel much more centered after a short dry fast. Oddly I have completed two 3 day dry fasts in the past and did not experience the same level of intensity as these regular 36 hour dry fasts. Now I would position myself on the healthy end of the "typical civilized person" but I am finding this dry fasting tough going. The conclusion we can draw from this is that each person is totally unique and there is no way of gauging exactly how their body will react during a dry fast and therefore IMHO it is always better for everyone to err on the side of caution when it comes to dry fasting.
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 30 Jun 2011 03:12 #8105

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David wrote:
I tend to agree wholeheartedly with the Fast Doctor that for the 'typical' civilized person dry fasting could well be too intense. The issue here Milena is that the dividing line between what constitutes a 'typical' civilized person is a very broad line. And because duty of care is paramount for people on both ends of the demarcation line it is safer and wiser to cater for the ones who are on the more extreme end of the scale and this is what I think is implicit in The Fast Doctors statement 'typical person'..

Dear David,

The chances for a "typical" person to attempt dry fast are very slim. Most "typical" people would think that dry fasting is impossible or too extreme and will try water fast first. And even if they do decide to dry fast, they will not go for more then 24 to 36 hours, which is totally safe for most people unless they have conterindications.

So far with all the encounters I have read of people taking on long dry fasts they were somewhat experienced in fasting and knew what to expect. I honestly do not see any reason to worry about people putting themselves in danger because dry fast is so powerful that if their body won't be able to handle it, they will be forced to stop by some pretty sever symptoms way before they get past safe zone.
David wrote:
By the same token you cannot assume that everyone can achieve what you have which to me is atypical..

Cory came pretty close...:) Also, remember, I prepared myself by gradualy increasing the number of days I was dry fasting. It was not like I went into it not knowing what to expect. And I really
don't think my results were that atypical, outside of not having too many detox symptoms. Cory's experienced with his 7-day dry fast resembled mine, all he had was coated tongue and light-headedness.
David wrote:
I also dry fast for 36 hours 2x week and yesterday had to take the day off work as I was so knocked out by it and I had a pain in my left kidney or at least it appeared so but could also have been a muscle in that region. For the first time I felt thirsty half way into my dry fast and it felt odd not to drink water. Having said that I am indeed pleased I completed my 36 hours again this week as one of the benefits is that I do not experience hunger during the dry fast but do on a water fast.
Also I feel much more centered after a short dry fast. Oddly I have completed two 3 day dry fasts in the past and did not experience the same level of intensity as these regular 36 hour dry fasts. Now I would position myself on the healthy end of the "typical civilized person" but I am finding this dry fasting tough going. The conclusion we can draw from this is that each person is totally unique and there is no way of gauging exactly how their body will react during a dry fast and therefore IMHO it is always better for everyone to err on the side of caution when it comes to dry fasting.

It takes a certain kind of person to have the courage to try dry fasting. Certainly not for everyone. Caution is one of the ingridients of courage. Without caution courage would not lead to victories. And as such, I think it is given that anyone who will dare to dry fast for any length of time will be cautious. Not too many would attempt to climb mount Everest without proper training and proper gear. The same goes for dry fasting.

Personally I think it's easier to overlook red flags on a water fast when a person is drinking water and thinks everything should be ok, then on a dry fast when a person is on constant alert because they know they are doing something out of ordinary.

I remember the difference in the levels of alertness during my 40-day fast was huge. While dry fasting I was constantly in tune with every inch of my body and while water fasting I thought that since I am drinking now, what could possibly go wrong.
May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 30 Jun 2011 03:58 #8106

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The Fast Doctor wrote:
Milena.

You need to understand human physiology and have experienced fasting under various circumstances to make pronouncements that could potentially harm people's health. After about 35 years of fasting both with and without water, having fasted wet and mostly dry and measuring about 30 plus substances in the blood during these periods, I believe, does qualify me to make such pronouncements, which are not assumptions but real experience backed by proper scientific measurements and results.

I will never advise a patient to "dry fast". Whilst supporting their decision and observing the response, overriding a very basic physiological biofeedback remains dangerous.

André


I do find a bit of a dichotomy though in the fact that after fasting predominantly dry for 35 years and finding it to be beneficial for yourself, you do not want to support the same practice in your patients. Why don't you think they would benefit from what you personally practice, if you teach them how to properly prepare for a dry fast?

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May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 30 Jun 2011 07:33 #8107

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I have almost finished reading Dr. Filonov's book (and cannot wait for a proper English translation to become available, lol!). What I have read indicates that he has worked with very toxic and sick people (i.e typical) during his 20 years of practice using dry fasting. He repeatedly states that it is not wise to dive into dry fasting with a long dry fast. He has a very extensive pre-fast protocol for cleansing the liver and intestines, followed by eating a plant-based diet for some time, then beginning with short water fasts, and eventually embarking on a dry fasting regime known as "fractionated" dry fasting in which the person begins with 1 day of dry fasting at a time and gradually builds up to 5 consecutive days of dry fasting--a process which he has found to be extremely safe in practice. He states very clearly on a number of occassions that he does not recommend a person to dry fast for more than 5 days in a row without experienced supervision. It is hard to say if he is saying this to protect himself, or if he really feels this is necessary for the majority of people. The doctors at TrueNorth Health where I did my 25-day water fast insist that a person should not fast for more than 3 days without supervision, and I consider this to be fairly ridiculous. The only real danger for most people on a water fast from what I have read is the possibility that you may be one of the genetic minority who cannot retain potassium beyond 2 weeks on a water fast. Consequently, I think it would be extremely wise for anyone embarking on a long water fast to have their electrolytes checked regularly. I am sure there are similar perameters for dry fasting, though Dr. Filonov does not explicitly detail what these might be.

So, here is my two cents for what it is worth: A person would certainly be wise to read his book from cover to cover before embarking on a dry fast and following the "safe" protocol that he outlines. If, after successfully completing several shorter dry fasts, you wish to do a longer dry fast, make sure you have someone who can help to monitor your situation (especially vital signs) several times a day. Take it one day (or hour) at a time and don't try to break any records or let your ego dictate the length of your fast. Listen to your body very carefully. Dry fasting is definitely a more dangerous type of fast but, like Milena, I also feel the body would send up major red flags if it was in trouble. It is the fasters responsibility to know what those red flags are and then to respect them.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 30 Jun 2011 09:15 #8109

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Thank you very much Esmee for your two cents...:)

Yes, Dr. Filonov as well as several other doctors who administer dry fasting do believe that 5 days is a safe length for dry fast to be done at home. If someone is experienced they can go up to 7. It is not in his book, but that is what he has done himself and told me as well. And that is not because he is trying to protect himself, people in Russia don't sue their doctors...;)

More often then not Western doctors try to over protect their patients and/or overestimate the dangers of self-treatment for two reasons: liability and making more money. If you can convince someone that they cannot water fast on their own for more then 3 days (totally ridiculous) and they still want to experience fasting, you got yourself a new paying client. It's very sad.

From what I know they do not draw blood at Filonov's clinic during or after the fast. In fact he does not recommend getting blood work done for several weeks after the fast since the results will be off as the body goes through rebuilding process. I already learned that through my blood testing experience. Thank God for Dr. Filonov as he put me at ease.

Again, thank you Esmee for sharing your thoughts on Dr. Filonov's book and his experience.
May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 09 Jul 2011 07:41 #8270

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Milena,

I am surprised nobody has pointed the error in your comparison between dry and water fasting yet.

If you would have fasted on water the first 9 days you would have had the same results weight-wise or maybe even better.

It is a known fact that while fasting with water only, the average person goes down in weight close to 1 kilo per day (about 2 pounds) the first 5 to 7 days. After that the body has already slowed down the metabolism considerably, so you start to feel colder than normally for same temperatures and you lose very little weight per day from that point on....

So your comparison is not quite correct. Your numbers seem to indicate that one would get pretty much the same results as far as weight loss goes, in fact they might get even more weight loss on a water fast. In my case I lose close to 1 kg per day on water fast for the first week. After the first week there is little weight loss per day.

I don't know much about dry fasting to comment on other benefits. What I've read was that it was not safe to do it for more than 3 days and that's the maximum I've done up to now.

I hope to have a chance to read the reference material you guys have around on this subject, it sounds intriguing to me.

Congratulations on successfully finishing the 40 days fast.

Greg

Milena wrote:
catmoon wrote:


Is it true that 1 day of dry fasting is equivalent to 3 days of dry fasting? So if you did 3 days would it be equal to 8 days of water fasting? How did they find this info?

Also I have been fasting, if I drink water in the morning and don't drink water until the next morning, is this considered dry fasting?

For those of you who are interested in knowing whether 1 day of dry fasting is equivalent to 3 days of water fasting I can share what I discovered through my personal experience.

During the 9 days on dry fast I lost 4.6% of body fat or 13.8 lbs (6.3 kilo).

During the 27 days on water fast I lost 3.9% of body fat or 11 lbs.(5 kilo)

As you can see my dry fast was 3 times shorter and produced even better results then water fast.

I think this should answer anyone's doubts regarding which type of fast is more powerful and more effective in terms of length of time involved.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 09 Jul 2011 17:39 #8281

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borota wrote:
Milena,

I am surprised nobody has pointed the error in your comparison between dry and water fasting yet.

If you would have fasted on water the first 9 days you would have had the same results weight-wise or maybe even better.

It is a known fact that while fasting with water only, the average person goes down in weight close to 1 kilo per day (about 2 pounds) the first 5 to 7 days. After that the body has already slowed down the metabolism considerably, so you start to feel colder than normally for same temperatures and you lose very little weight per day from that point on....

So your comparison is not quite correct. Your numbers seem to indicate that one would get pretty much the same results as far as weight loss goes, in fact they might get even more weight loss on a water fast. In my case I lose close to 1 kg per day on water fast for the first week. After the first week there is little weight loss per day.

I don't know much about dry fasting to comment on other benefits. What I've read was that it was not safe to do it for more than 3 days and that's the maximum I've done up to now.

I hope to have a chance to read the reference material you guys have around on this subject, it sounds intriguing to me.

Congratulations on successfully finishing the 40 days fast.

Greg

Milena wrote:
catmoon wrote:


Is it true that 1 day of dry fasting is equivalent to 3 days of dry fasting? So if you did 3 days would it be equal to 8 days of water fasting? How did they find this info?

Also I have been fasting, if I drink water in the morning and don't drink water until the next morning, is this considered dry fasting?

For those of you who are interested in knowing whether 1 day of dry fasting is equivalent to 3 days of water fasting I can share what I discovered through my personal experience.

During the 9 days on dry fast I lost 4.6% of body fat or 13.8 lbs (6.3 kilo).

During the 27 days on water fast I lost 3.9% of body fat or 11 lbs.(5 kilo)

As you can see my dry fast was 3 times shorter and produced even better results then water fast.

I think this should answer anyone's doubts regarding which type of fast is more powerful and more effective in terms of length of time involved.


Remember we are talking about FAT LOSS! sure you will loose alot on the first waterfast days because ALOT of that is water, glycogen etc wich is easely 10 pounds almost so waterfasts cant compare to dryfast in my opinion. But for you to use dry fasts that effective you have to undergo waterfasting first so that you are relative clean
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 09 Jul 2011 18:14 #8282

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Thank you Milena. These days I will have plenty of time to read about the dry fast.

Based on your reading/experience, could you enumerate some of the reported benefits, in terms of diseases cured, effectiveness, etc.?

Also aren't there other specialists besides Dr. Filonov that have articles/books on the subject? I would be more at ease if I had the testimony of 2 or 3 as opposed to just one.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 09 Jul 2011 18:56 #8283

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borota wrote:
Milena,

I am surprised nobody has pointed the error in your comparison between dry and water fasting yet.

If you would have fasted on water the first 9 days you would have had the same results weight-wise or maybe even better.

It is a known fact that while fasting with water only, the average person goes down in weight close to 1 kilo per day (about 2 pounds) the first 5 to 7 days. After that the body has already slowed down the metabolism considerably, so you start to feel colder than normally for same temperatures and you lose very little weight per day from that point on....

So your comparison is not quite correct. Your numbers seem to indicate that one would get pretty much the same results as far as weight loss goes, in fact they might get even more weight loss on a water fast. In my case I lose close to 1 kg per day on water fast for the first week. After the first week there is little weight loss per day.

I don't know much about dry fasting to comment on other benefits. What I've read was that it was not safe to do it for more than 3 days and that's the maximum I've done up to now.

I hope to have a chance to read the reference material you guys have around on this subject, it sounds intriguing to me.

Congratulations on successfully finishing the 40 days fast.

Greg
/quote]

Dear Greg,

Let me begin by stating that given the same person, the same starting weight, the same amount of physical activities and the same circumstances and putting that same person through 7 days dry fast and 7 days water fast, it would be scientifically impossible for them to lose the same amount or more on water fast as they would on dry fast.

When an individual dry fasts they produce between 1.5 to 1.8 liter of metabolic fluid to hydrate essential organs and to urinate. This amount is produced internally since no external source of fluid exists. The fat gets broken down not just for energy but for hydration as well.

When individual water fasts their source of hydration is maintained externally thus very limited amount of metabolic fluid gets produced, depending on their level of hydration and fat gets broken for energy only. Hence there is a significantly lower amount of fat loss. When you are not putting anything in and still putting out you lose more then when you are putting something in and putting something out. These are simple biological and physiological facts.

Now, lets get to the numbers. I have completed two 7-day dry fasts. Each dry fast resulted in a loss of 21 lbs. I am sure it would've been higher had I pursued physically active fast rather then passive. My body fat percentage is in high 20s.

Another member, Cory, who has done two 7-days dry fasts so far and started of with a much lower body fat percentage then I have (about 13%), has been losing between 18 to 20 lbs per each fast as well.

So with your up to 2 lbs per day weight loss on water fasts, you still fall several pounds short at the end of the week. And that would definitely be fat pounds and not water weight based on the bat burning mechanism of dry fast.

I did monitor my vitals for the first 10 days and my body temperature remained normal. My body temperature was as follows:

Day 2 - 96.8
Day 3 - 97.7
Day 4 - 98.2
Day 5 - 97.9
Day 6 - 97.5
Day 7 - 97.0
Day 8 - 97.0
Day 9 - 97.5
Day 10 - 97.8

As you can see my body temperature remain the same beyond 7 day mark and even had gone up by a full degree comparing to the beginning of the fast and I did not feel colder. Hence, your statement that "It is a known fact that while fasting with water only, the average person goes down in weight close to 1 kilo per day (about 2 pounds) the first 5 to 7 days. After that the body has already slowed down the metabolism considerably, so you start to feel colder than normally for same temperatures and you lose very little weight per day from that point on..." would not be accurate here.
May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 09 Jul 2011 18:58 #8284

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borota wrote:
Thank you Milena. These days I will have plenty of time to read about the dry fast.

Based on your reading/experience, could you enumerate some of the reported benefits, in terms of diseases cured, effectiveness, etc.?

Also aren't there other specialists besides Dr. Filonov that have articles/books on the subject? I would be more at ease if I had the testimony of 2 or 3 as opposed to just one.

Dear Graig,

I am at a conference this weekend and limited with my free time; however, I do promise to respond to this on Monday.
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Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING 09 Jul 2011 19:19 #8285

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I went by the numbers you gave initially, but missed the point that you were talking BODY FAT loss not just decrease of body weight.
I was talking just body weight "loss", which now I see is quite below the weight loss that happens on dry fast.

Thanks for clarifying this, my bad.
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