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Starving the body

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25 Jul 2010 22:26 #4830 by Meditating
Meditating created the topic: Starving the body
www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/07/23/fn.karen.d.../index.html?hpt=Sbin

While I would not assume this woman received a proper diagnosis, I was wondering if it were correct, how such weight loss would correlate with fasting and weight loss.

While it isn't clear that her weight loss was steady over the past 2 years, if it were then it certainly comports with suggested conventional weight loss, during which I never heard discussion of the exhaustion of nutritional reserves or triggering a starvation response.

This seems exceptionally odd since she was gaining weight at the time of her diagnosis, unless she actually was starving and her metabolism dropped to offset the problem. But even this seems odd given that she was still in an obese classification and the fat should have been converted to fuel.

Until I started reading about fasting, I didn't know we had nutritional reserves. I thought if you didn't eat for a few days then you probably just fell into a coma. LOL.

Any thoughts?
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25 Jul 2010 23:10 #4831 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
I think whoever "diagnosed" a thing called "starvation mode" just needed a scapecoat to blame. She likely felt sick because all the toxins in the fat became more concentrated as she lost weight.. and she never properly detoxed.

Yes dear Meditating, people do fall into a coma if they fast too long.. but in most cases not because of a deficiency, rather as a result of toxicity. When you lose fat, you need to get rid of the so liberated fat soluble toxins. Just sitting there hoping and waiting to get better is a recipe for disaster.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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25 Jul 2010 23:48 #4832 by Meditating
Meditating replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
Thanks Andre' and I suspected the diagnosis was erroneous because the many of the "facts" seemed to contradict each other. As for toxicity, that make sense, but if she was exercising on a regular basis, I would have though she was eliminating toxins to some degree.

On another note, I don't know if you saw my post on reducing the size of an enlarged heart that appeared here some days ago, but I would certainly like to hear your response to that if you have a moment.

Meditating
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26 Jul 2010 15:14 #4836 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
Regarding this fasting-associated toxicity resulting from liberation of toxins from fat, I wonder if the alternate-day or every-few-day fasting would limit the dangerous exposures to released toxins and allow for slower, deeper cleaning in the long run.

I've done several 36-72 hour water fasts in the last week, minus the last three days (when I ate consistently), but I do hope that detoxification is also the end result of short fasts, which from what you've written, it seems to be.
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26 Jul 2010 15:29 #4837 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
Indeed I believe you to be quite correct, dear carolineq.. regularly "downloading" a volume of toxins might just allow your system to "reach deeper" into the fat cells, the myelin sheaths in the nervous system and the marrow cells, somewhat like "stirring them up" every now and then.

You do still, however, need to get the toxins not only out of the cells, but also out of the body, so I will still advise persisting with regular cycles of detox activities.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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09 Oct 2010 21:45 #5194 by Marsh
Marsh replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
Problem is if your body is used to a certain weight, then changing it probably confuses it. My weight has always been low, I rarely eat above 1500 cals, even though I'm really thin and active in running and swimming. Thing is I've been practically keeping my body almost starving, and eat only little.
Fasting gets me very close, I feel it, only stop if my body tells me to.
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10 Oct 2010 06:25 #5197 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
Varying your weight gives your body the opportunity to consume older, weaker cells like when you fast, then replace themm with young, new and vibrant ones upon refeeding. This process could be the most effective way of "youthing" the body. I try to gain and lose my whole weight over the course of every year: One to 3 kilograms up and down per week.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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16 Oct 2010 18:12 #5244 by Marsh
Marsh replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
If I had the time and money, I would love to go on a course to fast for as long as possible - under controlled circumstances.
Even though I'm skinny, how long would it take for me to reach the point of starvation? I probably have in the past got quite close, but couldn't carry on, due to my environment.
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17 Oct 2010 05:35 #5245 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
Starvation, dear Marsh, depends not only on energy (which is primarily stored as fat) but also on practically every other nutrient: Starvation will set in as soon as you run out of any essential nutrient, even if you are obese!

This is why, if there is no good supervision available, I always recommend repetitive short fasts (1-7 days at a time) rather than one long fast. During the periods of eating, a good variety of unprocessed foods will ensure there is a balance of nutrients available for the next fast.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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10 Nov 2010 03:21 #5344 by Marsh
Marsh replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
I suppose there is no direct result what "is".
If you are lean, already, then probably they could go for longer, as all nutrients are all even, although low will all get used up at the same time. I've read of people fasting for extended periods of time - something I would love to try - if I could do so safely.
I do find, that during fasting, some parts of the body shrink faster than others - the waist and chest mainly. Probably most fuel is stored around the chest, and is the first to go, added to keeping active, also keeps the matabalism up-hence faster weight loss.
This person, when the photo was taken was on his 40th day of fasting. Would a normal person get to this, or not as much?
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10 Nov 2010 08:02 #5345 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Starving the body
Agreed.

There is of course a lot of fat "internally" such as around the kidneys.. this serves the purpose inter alia of "cushioning" and protect the organs mechanically.

I would not advise fasting beyond about 8% body fat, as the muscles could really get targeted after that.. and even organs like the liver. Thus the picture attached is in my opinion really taking it too far.. unnecessarily. You can break down most of your fat and replace it, but this also happens "piecemeal" by regular fasting and refeeding.. with the weekly fast you likely replace all your fat over about a year if you are not overweight.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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09 Aug 2014 17:58 #22986 by Tomotto
Tomotto replied the topic: Starving the body
Marsh, Thanks for bringing up this 4 yr. old thread again. I am at a quite low fat threshold, concerned about muscle catabolism. Doc's advice holds true; doing regular IF's & varying the metabolism for cell breaking down & re-forming. & keeping up the cycles. exercise begets muscle formation. For extra calories throw in a few bananas!

Peace,
Tomotto
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14 Aug 2014 06:04 - 14 Aug 2014 06:04 #23023 by Marsh
Marsh replied the topic: Starving the body
A few months ago decided to carry on my regeime.
On mon-fri, I allow only 300-400 calories per day, excercise and at the weekend sat/sun (last "meal" fri night" fast until monday morning.
On the 4th weekend, I continue fasting into the week, target is the friday, but go long as I can, but have to do Sat/sun/mon/tue as a minimum.
The next day, I'm allowed 1000 cals, then resume to maintenance levels after that. (<400 cals per day).
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14 Aug 2014 11:19 #23026 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Starving the body
Good for you, Marsh, but please don't go underweight. It is even more dangerous than overweight. You do need about 2500 calories per day to maintain your body and if you are really active, you need more. Else you will cannibalise your muscles, which can be irreversible.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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